In a word, yes. But I’ll save the long version for our next FTF BS-and-work session. :)

http://accordionguy.blogware.com/Photos/2006/07/one_does_not_simply_rock_into_mordor.jpg

I’m not known for being exact in my sub-genre definitions though. I pick something near enough and leave it at that.

That’s a really interesting question. It also speaks to the fact that sword and sorcery isn’t dead yet, even though most of the S&S short fiction markets have died and not a lot of (or any?) longfic gets published under that subgenre label. All those S&S fans have to get their fix somewhere; maybe they’re the ones driving this successful hybrid material.

I’m not fond of the term “heroic fantasy”, though. Leaving aside the gender bias inherent in the term, which makes it sound like not the sort of thing you’ll see a lot of women in (“heroic/heroine [heroineic?] fantasy” sounds awkward and ugly), it also makes me think that the sole focus of the story is on a single character. A la Howard, yes — but I never liked Howard’s stuff. I can see how there might be some who’d like to see a retro resurgence, though.

“Adventure fantasy” works for me. But that’s not the same thing as epic fantasy. I still believe an epic doesn’t necessarily involve sallying forth to Do Deeds in the martial or dungeon-crawling sense; it can be about diplomacy or economics or engineering (e.g., KJ Parker). Some of the most interesting ancient epics involved these topics; we should explore that territory too.

Is classism really an overlooked element, these days? I’ve been reading more and more of the — er, deconstructive? — epic fantasy lately and it hits those class issues right on the nose. Thinking offhand about Brent Weeks’ Night Angel trilogy, which starts off in the slums and underworld of a deeply corrupt city and pretty much stays there even as The Fate Of Nations starts to take over the story; it doesn’t skimp at all in showing the ugliness of life for the poor in any medieval society. And Marie Brennan’s Elizabeth-and-elves books (er, does that series have a name? can’t recall, too lazy to Google, but the first book is called Midnight Never Come) focuses on the nobility but doesn’t fantasize/idealize them, so she shows that most of them were in debt up to their eyeballs and pretty much prostituting themselves to this or that interest in order to afford their privileged lifestyles. Just thinking of two recent examples offhand.

Rather than get tit-for-tat-y here, though, I’ll point out that the post made me ask a more fundamental question: “Is epic fantasy really a useful term anymore?” If you look at a lot of the books that are selling big right now, (Lynch, Abercrombie, Erikson, to a lesser extent Martin), they owe at least as much to Leiber or Howard as they do to Tolkien. The most successful works of our current generation of ‘epic fantasy,’ in other words, are half-breeds of sword & sorcery.

I therefore find terms like ‘heroic fantasy’ or ‘adventure fantasy’ more accurately describe much of what dominates the field right now. Though those tags have their own connotations. Daniel Abraham’s Long Price series is probably the best epic fantasy I’ve ever read, but it’s not big on adventure or heroism, per se…

I also think social class(ism?) is an essential and overlooked element in conventional epic fantasy (part of the reason we used to call it ‘high’ fantasy). I find that 90% of epic fantasy — even today, and even in those books that ostensibly ‘twist’ the genre — puts royals at the center of its concern.

I’m thinking out loud a bit here, but I guess that’s why I love this post because it has caused me to think about this in earnest. Thanks for that.

I have enjoyed GRRM’s Song of Ice and Fire despite its unfinished nature. The characters and setting are just too rich for me to lay off – to the point that I’ve read it more than once.

Sanderson’s effort on the latest WoT book is awesome. The story is moving again, quickly and in the right direction.